Indigenous Claims

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  • #93611
    williamthebold
    Participant

    I am disenchanted with these claims, for many reasons.
    This is a lengthy post, but it contains things which must be said.
    So I have cut it in to sections, and am keeping my fingers crossed.
    And I write with apologies to William Shakespeare, and to Eleanor, just in case!
    (I wanted to use that line – it is not relevant here) ^_^

    When we were born, we came in to a world where vast amounts of knowledge were available.
    There was also infrastructure, put in place by those who came before us.
    The use of that infrastructure required access to the land on which it was built.
    Access is certain for us if those who came before defended their occupancy of the land successfully.
    Had they been unable to defend that occupancy, their exclusive use of the land would have ceased.
    Then the infrastructure would not necessarily be available to us.
    Instead, a ‘foreign’ people would likely be in control, make the rules, and so call the shots.

    This is what happened in Australia hundreds of years ago.
    Europeans moved in and established themselves here.
    The indigenous population were unable to defend their exclusive occupancy of the land.
    They were not able to prevent europeans from establishing a presence.
    So they lost control.
    They no longer made the rules.
    A new set of standards was put in place, and enforced by the europeans.
    This wholesale takeover of an area was the way of the world back then, and it certainly continues today.
    Always has it been thus in nature?

    #93612
    williamthebold
    Participant

    After that, indigenous people could only pass on knowledge.
    All infrastructure, and use of the land, were no longer under their control.
    In such a situation, they had options.
    One was to fight physically to try to wrest the land back from the ‘invaders’.
    They did not do that effectively.
    Another option was to join with the new society, and be absorbed in to it.
    They haven’t done that effectively either?
    The option which seems to have been chosen by some is to fight on an intellectual level.
    They do this by trying to change the thinking of the majority.
    They insist they have an inalienable right to the land, because of their ancestry.
    This idea is agitated and propagated almost religiously
    Gradually, many people are being led to believe this claim is valid.
    It is not!

    To pass infrastructure and the use of land to future generations, one must first have ‘title’ to those things.
    In simple language, it must be owned before it can be given.
    Indigenous people lost ‘title’, or ownership, when europeans established themselves here.
    So every generation of indigenous people since then has had no ‘title’ which would allow them to pass things on.
    This is a concept many seem unable to grasp.
    They don’t ‘own’ it, so they cannot give it.
    Indigenous people who are alive now are no different from any other person born here.
    In fact, many of them are just as much european as indigenous.
    I cannot see that they have a just claim to any extra right, privilege, or benefit.

    #93613
    williamthebold
    Participant

    Such claims can also lead to division in society.
    Typical is: there is more than one nation here, and we claim the right to fly other flags.
    There is also the continuous agitation for non-existent rights.
    Over time, these can all cause a rift or division within society.
    We don’t deserve that.
    Not one of us living here today was involved in the settlement of europeans in australia.
    No european today, and no indigenous person alive now, was there when it happened.
    We cannot change the past, so we must accept as unchangable all the things our ancestors did or didn’t do.
    I think it is also important to question the amount of money and resources this country is using to deal with demands which should never have been be made.
    This has all led to a great deal of waste?
    It would be interesting to see just what this is all costing the community.

    I think it is absurd to say that anyone can claim ‘rights’ to something possessed by their ancestors a long time ago.
    What would happen if I investigated my DNA, and then demanded land or privilege in a place from whence my ancestors came.
    And from which of perhaps several places would I make such a demand?
    Were I to do that, I am quite certain I would be shown the door.
    And it is more likely I would be booted, swiftly and solidly, through that door.
    We alive today can only live with what we had around us when we were born.
    And we must continue to defend, effectively, our occupancy of the land which contains these things.
    Then we can pass them to future generations, because we have retained title to them.
    And remember, land and infrastructure came to us because past generations were able to defend them.
    Wars were fought and won.
    I am becoming more and more disenchanted with the attitude of the relative few who make illogical demands.
    Thankfully, the government is just about holding the line.
    I think they need to redouble their efforts.

    #93615
    RachelRachel
    Participant

    Well said William. I must say that I read every word. Breaking it up was a great idea as I didn’t then look at a long piece of writing and skim down the middle hoping for something interesting to catch my eye.
    I feel that you are a very knowledgeable man , someone who reads a lot and comprehends what he reads.
    I for one objected to Kevin Rudd apologising on my behalf for what happened long before I was born. I wasn’t around when the Redcoats came into Australia so why should I apologise for something that I haven’t done.
    I and I alone am responsible for my actions I am not responsible for what others do.

    #93616
    williamthebold
    Participant

    Thank you Rachel. And I do agree with you about Mr Rudd.
    And I think also that the following is relevant.

    Some of our residents, particularly those from overseas, might need special consideration.
    They might have natural difficulty adapting to our way of life.
    For all people like that, a way of matching their ways to ours must be found.
    Education is the key here?
    There should be understanding on both sides, and a willingness to adjust.
    But the country must remain as one, with ONE flag.
    United we stand, divided we fall?
    So I just wish people would stop this divisive nonsense.
    This is SERIOUS, and now is the time for careful thought by all persons?

    #93617
    RachelRachel
    Participant

    I have often wondered when people are in migrant camps waiting to hopefully be allowed to live here why they aren’t given the opportunity to learn English. Why aren’t they educated in our way of life so they have some idea what to expect.
    We are all Australians whether by birth or a citizenship certificate. There shouldn’t be any difference in the way each person is treated or paid whether it be a wage or welfare.
    I once read about a white man who had both white and aboriginal grandchildren. He was amazed at how much more the aboriginal child received in government payouts.
    This sort of thing contributes towards a them and us attitude and it shouldn’t be if we are one.

    #93618
    tivolidreamer
    Participant

    If you are referring to the sorry speech in parliament by Prime Minister Rudd, then I believe , quite simply, it was one of the greatest moments in our democracy.
    I will be polite and say I disagree.
    It is sad that you could not see it this way.
    I am surprised you see nothing evil about temoving children from the their parents?
    I thought we were united.

    I find it heart breaking to read you do not feel this way.
    Or are you saying it happened a long time ago so it is irrelevant.
    Many felt the same about Nazi war criminals.
    Actually historically hot that long.
    It was atill happening in the fifties

    #93619
    tivolidreamer
    Participant

    Indigenous people are the ones I am much much more interested in hearing from.
    Who are we to be making decisions for them?
    Their claims are real and valid.
    Historically we have shown no tolerance, let alone, respect.
    The indigenous people looked after this country better than we have.
    What have we done?
    We have decimated wild life, introduced non indigenous creatures like rabbits, cane toads and invasive weeds that are destroying theland scape.
    Greedy miners have destroyed spiritual art and culture.
    Habitat destroyed.
    We have filled our oceans with plastic.
    We have been incapable of environmental burning to control bush fire devastation.
    We have caused our rivers to run dry allowing people to farm rice and cotton that were never meant for this environment. Rivers are dead and dying.
    I am sorry.
    Minorities have not been very welcome on greypath.
    We lost some brilliant posters in the past.
    Immean really brilliant.
    I learned so much from Nico and John.
    Sad really. We hear the conservative voice all the time.
    Of course they are entitled to be read. do not doubt anyones intelligence.
    Its just that I am much much more interested in a different cultural persepctive.
    In the end power wins.
    Compassion respect in this Trumpian age takes a back seat.
    Black lives matter.

    #93620
    tivolidreamer
    Participant

    See I can write long posts too lol.

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